Altums?

[tigger27]

Do these look like angels to you?:confused3:


http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h384/PeaNgan/Angels/angel1.jpg

[Longstocking]

I am no angel expert by all means. But they don't look like Altums to me.


Heiko Bleher has a new book out... that I think discusses true altums.

[TwoTankAmin]

Yes they are angels.

As to whether or not they are true altums, it is impossible to say from that picture.

[joe_jaskot]

Not the greatest picture. Hard to tell if they are altums. An easy give away is the upturned pointed nose on the altums compared to regular angelfish.

[tigger27]

I will try to take some more pics, but the tank they are in right now aren't very good for photos, but i will try my best. They are still very small, maybe quarter body size.

[exasperatus2002]

they dont look like the altums I've seen (baltimore md, barnes & knoebles has a huge amazon display tank with altums). Maybe scalare?

[fishbuddy]

on the angelfish forum there was a big discussion over the so called Columbian Altums being sold in the stores are some kind of Hybrid. they do not have the body shape of the altum or the scolare. The Altums I had a few years ago had a brown body not a silver body. Could not keep them for long. Too expensive to try again.

[TwoTankAmin]

I was always a huge fan of altums but was always aware of the difficulties with keeping them alive as new imports. Similar problems occur with a number of lower pH/TDS SA fish. So I waited many years as I moved up the fish keeping learning curve before i was even ready to attempt them.

I talked with folks who imported and have kept them alive and discerned that one has a much better chance of their surviving when the first person to have them once they arrive in country does a decent length acclimation so when the next buyer gets them their chances of surviving are much better.

My first purchase was 6 altums and the seller was supposed to have hed them at least a month before I got them. Unfortunately, he sold my fish and replaced them with a 2nd group he brought in. The end result was I had 6 dead altums inside of 3 weeks.

Then Mark of anubiasdesisgn fame stepped in to help and taught me and this is why today I have 8 lovely altums growing nicely for the last 14 months. Here is a summary of what I believe is a good way to deal with newly acquired altums:

1. Never put them into an established tank, start a new tank just for them. Keep them on their own- no other tank inhabitants. Live plants and wood are a good idea.
2. Get the TDS down by mixing ro or distilled water with your tap. It is even possible to start them in 100% ro.
3. Start them at 80F and then raise it to about 84 in the first week.
4. Slowly ween them off the ro/distilled mix over several months to get them to 100% tap. (This assumes your tap is not way off paramwise for them.)
5. Only medicate if you see specific symptoms which need treatment.
6. Tankmates can be added once you are at your final water params for them.

One observation: I have been told by altum folks smarter than I am that altums are a social fish and should be kept in groups. I was further told that many believe that these fish communicate not only by visual cues but that they also use chemical forms of communication. It was suggested that I might want to use Purigen as a precaution to insure there could not be an chance of a toxic build up. I never followed that suggestion but I doubt doing so could hurt.

Excuse my poor camera skills-

http://twotankamin.smugmug.com/photos/1156072489_DhRVg-M.jpg

http://twotankamin.smugmug.com/photos/1156072479_ymNKJ-M.jpg

[fishbuddy]

Nice set up, I just can't get myself to try them again, for right now silver angels are doing fine.

[tigger27]

Exasperatus, I'm skeptical myself. I'm going to move them into a larger tank, a 75 gallon. Hopefully I can get better pics and I'll post more photos in the coming weeks. Some of them look altums, but some are definitely not which leads me to think that it is a hybrid.

[tigger27]

I got them them from Jeff Rapps. I saw them in Shark Aquarium once and those are definitely Altums. The body and fins are much higher than the ones I have now. The only consolation right now is that they are growing very fast and I hope the final body shape shows up soon.

[tigger27]

Twotank, that's a REALLY nice setup! How big is that tank? Did you get yours from Anubias Design.

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to try it.

[fishbuddy]

get your wallet warmed up

[TwoTankAmin]

Thank you.

The tank is a 29 gal. and holds 8 altums. I do not think I can leave them in there much more than another few months before a larger space becomes imperative.

Yes, I got them from Mark aka anubiasdesign.

I also had two really big altums in a 45, possibly a pair. I lucked into them last march and they have been doing great until the past week. I redid some plants and as a result lowered a heater closer to the bottom. It was in the area they hid in when not out and about. Apparently one got a heater burn I did not see until yesterday when it was festering and covered in fungus. Despite my best efforts I lost it today. Gutted, it was almost 4 years old.

[tigger27]

I'm sorry your lost.

If you can, would you be able to post some pics on your larger Altums? I want to see more fish so I can learn to spot "real" Altums vs fakes.

[TwoTankAmin]

Mt 2nd larger altum stopped eating and became listless when its mate died. After a little more than a week it passed. It did not have a mark on it nor any symptoms at all. I am sure it died of a broken heart :(

You can see some fantastic pictures of all kinds of altums here, unfortunately the site is not in English but the pictures are :-)

http://www.skalarezucht.de/


Since i posted the above I have been surfing altums and found an even better site. Not only does it have altums but also pictures of other wild strains as well as their crosses, check it out http://www.finarama.com/tba/identification.htm

[zcfish]

I always like this picture from wikipedia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Group_of_Pterophyllum_Altum.jpg

[fishbuddy]

sorry for your loss, wish I had better luck with Altums. guess i'll wait for you to sell some F1's. With more and more people breed them it should be a matter of time before we can get them on a regular basis. Wild caught is hard to do, and it is such a shame to bring them in.

[TwoTankAmin]

I am one of those folks who remains unconvinced that true altums are being bred in tanks without the use of hormones especially on a large scale. I am currently unwilling to buy any of the fish I have seen offered.

I lost the 2nd big altum about a week after the first, it died w/o and symptoms or any external problems I could see. I think it could not handle the lose of its mate/buddy. Fortunately my 8 smaller ones are still thriving.

[TwoTankAmin]

Gotta love the internet and late nights when you can't sleep-

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3534

[Heyguy74]

Tangledupincichlids.com has altums for sale. captive bred