Question For Larry Johnson...

[fischfan13]

Larry, in the wild is it normal to see "barred"-Mbuna with bars that are broken?
For instance, when I look at Demasoni I look for those who do not have any broken bars. Am I looking for something that is not natural?

Thanks.

[Larry Johnson]

Yes broken bars and similar attributes make up the species population.
Each fish being similar but some minor variation in a few,,,,such as broken bars and crooked bars.
It is not always observed but I would not say it's unusual.

Cheers,Larry

[Afreakin]

Good question Bill:asmd::clown:

[Larry Johnson]

Probably the best species I could mention here would be Ps.Demasoni,,,in the hobby you can sometimes find them with messed up bars.
This comes from breeding stock taken from the lake which was then not selected properly and the messed up bars have been bred right into the fish.
Now I cannot say exactly where I read/heard this,but as I remember it this happened a long time ago.(back when the fish was relatively new)
As the story goes,the wild fish were imported into Germany where they were bred extensively,,,,,while the wild stock was expensive,rather than sort them out and only breed the 'good ones' the whole lot was bred,even the ones with messed bars.
Now over the years since, the messed up bars have been fixed into that particular strain.
Now I have seen some very good strains from different friends and suppliers,I have also seen some bad ones.I still wonder if that ancestral line of Ps.Demasoni is still around!

Cheers,Larry

[Afreakin]

Larry as far as genetics goes you could have a good strain of demasoni and still produce fish with broken bars. Would you say that to be true? I ask because human genetics has that capability, what you see on the outside isn't 100% of what's on the inside.

[fischfan13]

Great question Rob, right back atcha!http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-015.gif

[Larry Johnson]

Larry as far as genetics goes you could have a good strain of demasoni and still produce fish with broken bars.
Yes they could,but if you are interested in keeping and selling a good strain of fish then you MUST cull. It's YOUR reputation on the line!
Keeping and breeding fish to produce a final result of a speciman with no broken bars is going to take time,as I'm sure you have an idea of how long it takes this or other species to mature.
Start with the best fish you can get and inspect them before purchasing!
Buying on line can be risky,as you really cannot inspect the fish before buying,but if you have a trusted source then why not,,,tell him what you are looking for and that broken bars are NOT what you want.
If you do in fact recieve fish with broken bars then do not breed them if your interests are in the direction of perfection,,,,only makes sense!
Eventually you will have to make an addition to the blood line,,,,use your own females and find the most striking male you can find.Then begin the process again,,,if broken bars show up.

Cheers,Larry

[fischfan13]

Yes they could,but if you are interested in keeping and selling a good strain of fish then you MUST cull. It's YOUR reputation on the line!
Keeping and breeding fish to produce a final result of a speciman with no broken bars is going to take time,as I'm sure you have an idea of how long it takes this or other species to mature.
Start with the best fish you can get and inspect them before purchasing!
Buying on line can be risky,as you really cannot inspect the fish before buying,but if you have a trusted source then why not,,,tell him what you are looking for and that broken bars are NOT what you want.
If you do in fact recieve fish with broken bars then do not breed them if your interests are in the direction of perfection,,,,only makes sense!
Eventually you will have to make an addition to the blood line,,,,use your own females and find the most striking male you can find.Then begin the process again,,,if broken bars show up.

Cheers,Larry

Larry, absolutely GREAT advice.
We could all only wish that everyone takes your advice.

[Larry Johnson]

Thanks fischfan13:colrface:
In my own thinking,I breed to the thoughts of that if something happened to fish in the Lake Malawi that I would indeed have something worthy to return.
Fish that have become 'sports' are something that please the eye,but is not something that I pursue.I have had them because someone gave them to me!
I enjoyed breeding them,passed them on,then as the fish became older,I just let them go with no replacements here at home.(albino peacocks and OB Peacocks)
The newer ones like Aulonocara sp 'strawberry'/dragon blood etc just do not excite me,,,nice colors but not something I would own. I guess my views have changed over the years!

Cheers,Larry

[fischfan13]

Thanks fischfan13:colrface:
In my own thinking,I breed to the thoughts of that if something happened to fish in the Lake Malawi that I would indeed have something worthy to return.
Fish that have become 'sports' are something that please the eye,but is not something that I pursue.I have had them because someone gave them to me!
I enjoyed breeding them,passed them on,then as the fish became older,I just let them go with no replacements here at home.(albino peacocks and OB Peacocks)
The newer ones like Aulonocara sp 'strawberry'/dragon blood etc just do not excite me,,,nice colors but not something I would own. I guess my views have changed over the years!

Cheers,Larry

I feel the same way about these.
They have become the "flavor" of the day.
Look around some sites and these Aulonocara (?) have become moneymakers for some. Unfortunately, for many of us, we have seen watered down versions of many of the Aulonocara.
If I may, you might have seen some of these pictures before (LOL)...

Few and far between...
http://home.cogeco.ca/~ductapediver2/2007%20Tsano-Rock-(1).jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~ductapediver2/2007%20Gome-Rock-(5).jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i316/EricInNH/AulonocarajacobfreibergiMbowe_Islan.jpg

Now those are Aulonocara, and it is a shame that some people would rather have one named for a fruit (Strawberry).

[why_spyder]

I am a big fan of the Chitande-Types myself.

[fischfan13]

I am a big fan of the Chitande-Types myself.

Same here.
I believe it is Nick who posted some pics of his Chitande here.
If anyone remembers former forum-hopper "Nitrate" had some really nice Chitande.
This pic is courtesy of Cichlid News...
http://www.cichlidnewsmagazine.com/issues/2005oct/images/36d.jpg
Same issue, Same Island...
http://www.cichlidnewsmagazine.com/issues/2005oct/images/36c.jpg

[bovsbaitboxes]

Bill the first pic of the 3 that you posted(Larrys pics) what fish is that it is niceee!!!

[fischfan13]

Here ya go John, this is from another website...
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=2054
http://www.davesfish.com/ has them.

Aulonocara sp. 'chitande type north'

[bovsbaitboxes]

this is a type north never seen with the red

[Larry Johnson]

Now those are Aulonocara, and it is a shame that some people would rather have one named for a fruit (Strawberry).
I see you are getting the idea now,,,Ad is a bit more direct than myself!
bovsbaitboxes that fish is not from the North,it is from Tsano Rock.
Tsano Rock is between Monkey Bay and Cape Maclear,the fish is Aulonocara jacobfreibergi, one of the many color varieties of this fish.
I'm glad you like the natural habitat shots,,,,,I think in part,there is a reason why so many choose to buy "strawberries",,,,because they know NO difference.
When I view a forum and see some nice Aulonocara properly named and photographed it immediatley brings back memories!
If anyone remembers former forum-hopper "Nitrate" had some really nice Chitande.
Yes I had seen those pics,really nice fish!


Cheers,Larry

[AlishanAS]

Nitrate is a sore spot with certain buyers. He stiffed some of us with deformed fish right before he closed shop.

[Afreakin]

This turned out to be a very informative topic and I don't even keep Malawi cichlids

[bovsbaitboxes]

ok who has these Aulonocara jacobfreibergi Tsano Rock I need some thanks John

[fischfan13]

John, Peter at Atlantis has some Yellow Collar from Tsano...and remember to tell him that EastCoastCichlids sent ya!
Thats unless you are going up on February 28th!:partay:

[bovsbaitboxes]

Im going but I really like the red in the picture thanks John

[eggzackary]

this is a type north never seen with the red

Tsano Rock is between Monkey Bay and Cape Maclear,the fish is Aulonocara jacobfreibergi, one of the many color varieties of this fish.

Would this also be considered sp. swallowtail or "caroline swallowtail"?

[Heyguy74]

I

Now those are Aulonocara, and it is a shame that some people would rather have one named for a fruit (Strawberry).


Lol. That was funny. Those are some nice looking fish.