PVC oh the fun !

[Longstocking]

So, most of you know I have a nice little fish room I get to play with. When I moved here the plan was originally to run PVC from my pump.... as time went on it never happened. I had a maze of airline running from gang valves...

Well, finally, I have PVC running with air valves :runnningaround::runnningaround: We looped the PVC and my pressure has increased tremendously. :runnningaround:

Now to hook up the small system to the larger pump and it will all be done. We were able to hide the PVC pretty well so it doesn't look fugly to the eye.

Ahhhhhh a fish room, why is it never completed :coz: I guess that is part of the fun.

I will say this, it would have been a lot easier if done from the start. Trying to keep pressure while you tap the air valves in was interesting to say the least. Now if I was converting from HOB's or other filtration it wouldn't have been an issue....

[emartin]

Ahhhhhh a fish room, why is it never completed I guess that is part of the fun.
Because we're all lazy! I've been delaying working on finishing my fish room since last November! (with setting up two 125gs, a rack for small and fry tanks, and three 75g's). I'm FINALLY going to get the two 125g's up and running within the next two weeks...

Anyway Sarah got any pics of your fish room?

And what model/type air pump do you run? Blower, piston, diaphragm, etc?

[Longstocking]

Piston :) I have two of these the large one and the small one. I have had my large one for about 5 years with zero issues :)

http://www.kensfish.com/eccopluscommercialairpumps.html

There is a pic somewhere of my fish room... but it has changed dramtically. It's finally getting the the point were I am really enjoying being in there. A few more things to do but, with all my favorite fish and the layout at the moment I'm a happy fish nerd :)

I want to change out a 20 high I have for a 29 gallon... and add two more 10 gallons...

Put facing on all the 2 by 4's.... I don't know if I will ever actually do this... but it owuld be nice ;)

My room is basically lined with tanks. I don't have rows as I wanted to really be able to view my fish and enjoy the room :)

[CrabbyMatty]

I use an LPH80 linear piston air pump I bought from Jehmco. John was helpful in walking me through the setup and yes, the continuous loop is a must as is mounting the PVC higher than the highest tank in the fishroom to prevent accidental siphoning in the event of a power failure. I was fortunate to be able to set this up before I had any tanks running, so inconvenience wasn't really an isssue. A couple of weeks ago I brought four new 75G tanks online and I did have to drill out, tap and thread in new air valves. It doesn't take too many unplugged holes through the PVC to bring the whole air system to a halt. All tolled I was probably down for only 15 minutes before I was threading in the last valve. These pumps are an amazing invention.

[emartin]

Piston :) I have two of these the large one and the small one. I have had my large one for about 5 years with zero issues :)

http://www.kensfish.com/eccopluscommercialairpumps.html

There is a pic somewhere of my fish room... but it has changed dramtically. It's finally getting the the point were I am really enjoying being in there. A few more things to do but, with all my favorite fish and the layout at the moment I'm a happy fish nerd :)

I want to change out a 20 high I have for a 29 gallon... and add two more 10 gallons...

Put facing on all the 2 by 4's.... I don't know if I will ever actually do this... but it owuld be nice ;)

My room is basically lined with tanks. I don't have rows as I wanted to really be able to view my fish and enjoy the room :)

Are both pumps hooked up to the PVC setup? Does the pvc have a bleeder valve or does it loop until the air makes it out into the fish tank?

Increases pressure you say?

I may have to do that soon! I have the exact same air pump (one of those larger ones) and I just have a vinyl hose connecting it to a 4ft pvc manifold with above 40 valves I installed in it. Right now it is only powering two sponge filters but when I get the two 125g's and three 75g's and 55 and 60gallon tanks going I may have to do the PVC loop route to avoid having to get another pump or blower...

~Ed

[JROGO]

What size pvc are you using. I have 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" and thinking about reducing down to 1" or 1 1/2"

Thanks
Joe

[CrabbyMatty]

What size pvc are you using. I have 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" and thinking about reducing down to 1" or 1 1/2"

Thanks
Joe

Joe, I used 1" as instructed by John at Jehmco.

Matt

[Longstocking]

Only one of the pumps is currently set up with the pvc... the 2nd one will be connected to the loop soon though. Looping increases the pressure a lot !!! The lesser amount of line the pump has to charge up and the lesser amount of connections (at every connection you will lose air... small amounts, even if you don't feel any leaks...I recommend using that white pvc tape where ever you can) the more pressure you will have. I used 1 inch pipe... easy to hide and easy to work with. I would think if you went smaller it might be hard to tap into etc...

I sound like I did all of this :lol:.... hubby helps me a lot but does explain everything to me.

[triscuit]

... I know you own a camera, Sarah! :odd043:


Please? Some new pics? For us, your biggest fans?? :becky:

[Longstocking]

Brown noser :neener:

I will try... a lot of people ask... I just hate the way it looks in photo's. So maybe... don't hold your breath though.

[JROGO]

I have 1 1/2" not 2 1/2" I think I'm gonna go to Home Depot and get some 1" pvc. I already have the loop with the 1 1/2" pvc but I want to make sure if anything happens to my blower I get a new air pump and it will not struggle moving the air.

Thanks
Joe

[emartin]

So Sarah the PVC is a closed loop, the only exit is the outlets? Or do you have a single bleeder valve?

And +1 on the teflon tape (that's that white tape you were referring to). I use it wherever I can it's very useful...

[nick a]

Sarah, I'd do some research before adding a 2nd pump to your new loop. Sometimes, the 2nd pump can add problems. It's typically MUCH better to have a single pump (appropriately sized) and avoid any possibilities of the pumps working against each other.

Looping doesn't really increase the pressure any given pump is able to produce~it does help maximize the pump's efficiency and allow for balanced flow at every tap on the loop.

[Flareside]

Sarah, I'd do some research before adding a 2nd pump to your new loop. Sometimes, the 2nd pump can add problems. It's typically MUCH better to have a single pump (appropriately sized) and avoid any possibilities of the pumps working against each other.
I definitely agree, its likely that with two pumps- they could create too much pressure in the line resulting in "back pressure" overheating and damaging your pumps

Looping doesn't really increase the pressure any given pump is able to produce~it does help maximize the pump's efficiency and allow for balanced flow at every tap on the loop.
Exactly! - Ed, sounds like what you currently run is a pvc manifold? Try creating a giant rectangle (closed loop) with pvc this way the entire system is capable of putting out more equal output- especially the valves that are furthest from the air pump.Mine resembles a 4 rung (7ft wide) ladder I have my horizontal tubes running above each shelf of my rack and then the valve is tapped and the airline dropped down to the tank water. As long as you have the air lines above the water level, you dont have to worry about the possibility of water siphoning back into the tubing and ruining the pump in the event you lose power when not home.

Kudos to Sarah! I think I can relate to how you felt to get this build out of the way- getting rid of miles of air tubing and gang valves was a relief for me. I used to mess with those just to keep all sponges bubbling evenly. Used to drive me nuts sometimes

[emartin]

I definitely agree, its likely that with two pumps- they could create too much pressure in the line resulting in "back pressure" overheating and damaging your pumps


Exactly! - Ed, sounds like what you currently run is a pvc manifold? Try creating a giant rectangle (closed loop) with pvc this way the entire system is capable of putting out more equal output- especially the valves that are furthest from the air pump.Mine resembles a 4 rung (7ft wide) ladder I have my horizontal tubes running above each shelf of my rack and then the valve is tapped and the airline dropped down to the tank water. As long as you have the air lines above the water level, you dont have to worry about the possibility of water siphoning back into the tubing and ruining the pump in the event you lose power when not home.

Kudos to Sarah! I think I can relate to how you felt to get this build out of the way- getting rid of miles of air tubing and gang valves was a relief for me. I used to mess with those just to keep all sponges bubbling evenly. Used to drive me nuts sometimes

I'll see if it works currently the way it is...why fix what isn't broke, right? Otherwise I'll go ahead and run PVC air piping around the perimeter of where the tanks are in the garage.

I don't mind working with PVC, it's quite simple (I would've had more fun playing with PVC than Lincoln Logs when I was a little kid LOL) and straight-forward...

Thanks for the advice Sarah, Nick, Flareside...

[BlondeFishGal]

Brown noser :neener:

I will try... a lot of people ask... I just hate the way it looks in photo's. So maybe... don't hold your breath though.

Hey Sarah, even if you don't like the way it looks, seeing pictures of it would help out other members and give them ideas on what / how they want to do things. It's all about sharing, and no one cares if the pics aren't the best, right gang? ;)

It would just be good if you post some :)

[Longstocking]

ok, well I became concerned so I mentioned the problem with 2 pumps to my hubby...

he has two ways to combats this.... I guess he used to work with industrial pumps and already knew some of the problems. While we were in the fish room doing all of this.. he mentioned buying the same exact pump instead of using my little one. The reason.... because of what you guys said... I guess that would solve the problem :coz: He also mentioned using a check valve on each one.... :coz:

He knows way more I do what a shock :lol:

So, here are your pictures ladies :neener: Still a lot to do but you will get the general idea. This is the large rack. It holds 1 6 foot 75 gallon on the top, 4, 4 foot 50 breeders and 8 10 gallons currently. All tanks are lit connected to one switch ....and of course I now have all the tanks connected to PVC. The only thing left to do is add a couple 10's so I will have 10, 10 gallons and put a couple check valves on for the top tanks. This will be done within the week !!! Makes me nervous!

To the left you see another rack.... it holds 4 30's. Metal rack bought many years ago from Lowe's.

This shows about half the room... in total. Plants growing out the top of the tanks to keep the water clean....

I like it... and enjoy the room :becky:

I tried to take these two shots looking up into the light... so you could see the lights and plumbing. Otherwise these are really not too viewable.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/Longstocking/FishRoom.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/Longstocking/Fishroom2.jpg

[Flareside]

Sarah, I didnt cement the elbows or t fittings of my pvc. That way when you first set up your closed loop system if the pressure is too great and can risk damage to a pump- the fittings will likely blow apart rather quickly. When/if that happens simply run a couple of extra valves with some air lines all the way open or you can use a relief valve. I dont have a relief on my system only because I added a whole bunch of extra air valves that I run wide open. I have most of them in the tanks just as an extra oxygen source.

Sounds like youre hubby has it all under control though.

How nice was it to do away with all those old gang valves???

[Longstocking]

I'm running with most of them opened up 100%. I really don't have much extra air.... probably just enough to do what I want, which is to add 2 10's and a 29 gallon.

I hated those gang valves... like you I hated messing with them all the time just to get the pressure correct. Anyone need any gang valves? :lol:

[nick a]

he has two ways to combats this.... I guess he used to work with industrial pumps and already knew some of the problems. While we were in the fish room doing all of this.. he mentioned buying the same exact pump instead of using my little one. The reason.... because of what you guys said... I guess that would solve the problem He also mentioned using a check valve on each one

Seriously NOT wanting to bust your hubbie's chops!!!! but, neither of those are really the best solution. One (large enough--but not too) pump is primo.

Using two hypothetically 'identical' pumps is not technically possible--one will always be stronger than the other---it the law of the mechanical-moving-parts jungle :whistle:. The stronger one will cause the weaker to have to fight harder on the pressure stroke...causing it to generate more heat....causing it to wear quicker....causing it to become even weaker.....

Check valves would work ---in a fashion--- but not really in a good way. Think thru the flow dynamics. Both pumps are now going to have to work harder on the pressure stroke to open a check valve. If the stronger pump is pressure stroking against the 'close' side of the weaker pump's check valve...the weaker pump cannot open it's check valve and is deadheaded.....etc.....just not the best set up for the long term.


Sorry for going geekoid :signOops: but if you're considering spending $ on getting a 'matched' set/adding check valves etc......it'd be waaaay better to get just one right-sized unit. Probably save you money on your electric bill to run just one also.

The fishroom looks lovely....and I hope I haven't PO's either you or your husband with my techno-negativity!

[Flareside]

Nick, I think Sarah meant that her (experienced) hubby could add a "relief valve"- which would bleed off excess pressure so as not to overheat or damage the pump. I dont think she meant "check valves"?
Sounds like her pump is doing fine though without having to add the other one to the system. If its wasnt cutting it running all the valves- she coudl add airstones to all the airlines- the extra bit of resistance would probably provide just enough pressure inside the pvc to be able to run another 5-10 outlets

Sweet looking rack set up. I like that all tanks are consistent as opposed to all mismatched sizes etc.....Im anal about things in my room matching LOL
Dont say it Alesia- I know I am OCD

[Longstocking]

Nick, I think Sarah meant that her (experienced) hubby could add a "relief valve"- which would bleed off excess pressure so as not to overheat or damage the pump. I dont think she meant "check valves"?
Sounds like her pump is doing fine though without having to add the other one to the system. If its wasnt cutting it running all the valves- she coudl add airstones to all the airlines- the extra bit of resistance would probably provide just enough pressure inside the pvc to be able to run another 5-10 outlets

Sweet looking rack set up. I like that all tanks are consistent as opposed to all mismatched sizes etc.....Im anal about things in my room matching LOL
Dont say it Alesia- I know I am OCD

Actually he meant both :)

I brought up the fact that the older one wouldn't put out as much as a new bought one to him.... he is aware and we tossed that idea already.

We talked about both check valves and bleeding air when we talked today. Both would be used together if we go that route. In all honesty, I'm not sure how I want it at the moment. I wish I could add the 4 tanks that are on the small pump... the problem is that I have a 75 gallon and it's deep. The big pump won't be able push through the pressure needed for the 75. I am really maxed out on my big pump as it is.

my idea... just make a small seperate loop for the small pump. Problem solved :)



All this is great to discuss though. I like to do my research... and I truely value everyones input. If I have questions I will be sure to ask both of you :)

While my hubby does have a lot of experience doing plumbing, electricity, building racks, building monster sized ponds for florida fish farms.... this does not mean he is prefect... and any an all ideas are appreciated. As I might not think of an idea that would work for me and my fish room.

There are many problems that can arise just do to how each fish room is configurated. This is not the first fishroom we both have worked on.... nor the first fish room where we have run into problems with PVC :lol: I am far from perfect :lol: Ask me about getting electricuted in Julies basement :lol: Duck tape came in handy one time and has many uses in the fishroom :lol:

[BlondeFishGal]

I like that all tanks are consistent as opposed to all mismatched sizes etc.....Im anal about things in my room matching LOL
Dont say it Alesia- I know I am OCD

I never have to say it, you always beat me to it! :neener:

[Flareside]

Sarah, are you running air stones on your sponges or at the end of your air lines.
Reason I ask is because on my big rack I am running air stones on all my sponges but I added a T fitting in place of the elbow on the top right corner of my loop- then I ran a connecting pvc piece and plumbed it above the ceiling tiles (to hide the pvc as it travels to another wall of my fish room) the pvc connects to a second closed loop to the second rack which has 4 10 gals and 2 75 gals. On the first rack- the pump is connected to the first closed loop- those outlets all have airstones (otherwise a lot of the air pressure would escape to the path of least resistence- and close to the pump. So the second rack wouldnt have had enough pressure to run the deep 75's.
On the second rack I am using sponges in the 10's and also on the 2 75 gallon tanks WITHOUT air stones.

If I didnt run airstones on the first rack's loop, then the second rack's loop didnt have a lot of presure as it was the furthest from the pump and when I lowered the sponges in the 75's, they stopped bubbling before they reached the bottom as my pump's capacity was close to maxed out.

If I thoroughly confused ya, pm me and I can diagram it out or give you my cell to call me and I would try and explain it clearer. Sounds like your husband's got it down though

[emartin]

Sarah is that 6ft 75g one of the ones Glasscages makes? If so how do you like it?

I saw two 240g Steve has in his fish room and now I am sold on the quality of their tanks (and even if they do leak, because they are brand new you just have to reseal the inside...).

Nice fish room setup! I'm assuming that is not your whole set up though right?

[eelsnot]

Come on Sarah, zoom in on the pix so we can see some of the sandsifters in your collection.:odd043:

[Longstocking]

Sarah, are you running air stones on your sponges or at the end of your air lines.
Reason I ask is because on my big rack I am running air stones on all my sponges but I added a T fitting in place of the elbow on the top right corner of my loop- then I ran a connecting pvc piece and plumbed it above the ceiling tiles (to hide the pvc as it travels to another wall of my fish room) the pvc connects to a second closed loop to the second rack which has 4 10 gals and 2 75 gals. On the first rack- the pump is connected to the first closed loop- those outlets all have airstones (otherwise a lot of the air pressure would escape to the path of least resistence- and close to the pump. So the second rack wouldnt have had enough pressure to run the deep 75's.
On the second rack I am using sponges in the 10's and also on the 2 75 gallon tanks WITHOUT air stones.

If I didnt run airstones on the first rack's loop, then the second rack's loop didnt have a lot of presure as it was the furthest from the pump and when I lowered the sponges in the 75's, they stopped bubbling before they reached the bottom as my pump's capacity was close to maxed out.

If I thoroughly confused ya, pm me and I can diagram it out or give you my cell to call me and I would try and explain it clearer. Sounds like your husband's got it down though

Actually no I do not have airstones on that rack. I have them running on the small pump though. I followed you as we did something similiar. I actually have two loops runnning from the big pump. It's an idea,... but I still need more pvc around the room. Right now two sides of the room have PVC, the third does not. I don't want LONG strands of airline running from one side to another.

I think my solution is just to run the smaller loop. It isn't any more work than trying to run them together... probably less money and time/work.

Sarah is that 6ft 75g one of the ones Glasscages makes? If so how do you like it?

I saw two 240g Steve has in his fish room and now I am sold on the quality of their tanks (and even if they do leak, because they are brand new you just have to reseal the inside...).

Nice fish room setup! I'm assuming that is not your whole set up though right?


Yes it's one of glasscages. All of the tanks on that rack except for the 10's are from glasscages. No, it's not my entire set-up. There is another wooden rack and another metal rack from Lowes. Also one small stand that holds two 20's... There is a window smack in the middle. Imagine a decent sized bedroom lined with tanks.

Come on Sarah, zoom in on the pix so we can see some of the sandsifters in your collection.

lol.. picky aren't we :neener: It's the first pictures of my fishroom EVER posted online. The only other shot was published in a CCA news letter.

[Picklefish]

Just throwing in my .02 worth. I built my manifolds out of 1" Sched 40 PVC. The sidewalls of the schedule 20 were just too thin to hold the brass valves so keep that in mind when shopping for PVC.
It is worth investing in a tap to thread the hole you drill as you will get a much better seal. I have found theat adding a valve is easy all you do is drill tap and thread....done.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Picklefish/DIY/TappingtoolsSmall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Picklefish/DIY/TappingpipeSmall.jpg

I haven't glued any of the fittings in my manifolds as that way they are much easier to rearrange.
If you decide to go with open valves for pressure bleed off then you will get thet very annoying(to me) hiss. You can put airstones on to quiet them down.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Picklefish/DIY/ManifoldSmall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Picklefish/Fishroom%20Construction/Airmanifold02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Picklefish/Fishroom%20Construction/20Hrack.jpg