Sodium chloride

[shark75]

Where do you guys buy your salt in bulk? Thanks, Jim

[joe_jaskot]

By bulk do you mean 50 lbs or more? If so try a pond supply store.

[shark75]

Yeah, I guess. Would water softener pellets be ok? Its my understanding that they are pure sodium chloride. Would there be a problem with them not dissolving quick enough? I guess what I want to know is do stores like Target and Walmart sell salt without the iodine or any additives? I don't need 50 lb bags but would rather buy a decent amount at a time.

[joe_jaskot]

Pond salt can be bought at most garden centers that carry pond stuff. You can also buy it on- line. Here are a few: http://www.google.com/products?q=pond+salt&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=xG10S5SJOoa1tgfsh6TCCg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CDwQrQQwAg

[emartin]

Screw pond salt. Local places by me want $20 or more.

You can go to ANY Home Depot or Lowes. Go to the water softener salt aisle. Buy the bag that says Solar Salt or Rock Salt on it.

That is PURE Sodium chloride from evaporated sea water in the caribbean.

The best part is...a 40-50lb bag costs only like $4...

Plus, you can use it for your food too... Since it is safe to put in your water I'm sure it is safe to put on your food... I haven't done it yet but thought of it.

You can also get Solar Salt at farm supply stores. I know Agways carry it, and I am sure that Tractor Supply stores do too.

The two brands I have seen of it for sale are Diamond Crystal and Morton. BOTH ARE BLUE BAGS...

[joe_jaskot]

I don't know if I would use rock salt in my aquariums or ponds. Rock salt contains too many impurities. A short read on the use of salts in aquariums: http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm

[mack74]

I use epinson salt. I get it from cvs. You can get the 6lb bags for 3-5 bucks. So far this is the cheapest way I have found.

[bovsbaitboxes]

I agree with mack I have been using it for my fresh and saltwater (to raise mag level) for awhile now

[triscuit]

I also use Epsom salts to give my GH a bump... I buy about 10 pounds for $5 when it's on sale.


Interesting read on using salt in aquariums... I've used salt several times to treat ich and as a laxitive for fish when delousing them (metro/prazi). A further google search shows some pretty conflicting opinions on using salt to treat fish.
:coz:

[emartin]

I don't know if I would use rock salt in my aquariums or ponds. Rock salt contains too many impurities. A short read on the use of salts in aquariums: http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm

Solar Salt should be fine. Most solar salt brands like Diamond Crystal and Morton are 99.6% pure sodium chloride. The only impurities I have ever noticed was the occassional small rock (the rocks are so far the largest like 3mm, and I only found at the most so far 2 per 50lb bag)

I've been using Diamond Crystal Solar Salt for about two years now in all my african cichlid tanks with no problems at all.

API Aquarium Salt is the exact same thing. It's just extremely overpriced seawater evaporated into rock salt, except theirs is grinded up into smaller pieces whereas solar salt comes in sizes from like 3mm to like dice sized once in a while.

Solar Salt is NOT typical Rock Salt you see for sale (which is also what is dumped on roads during snow). Rock Salt is mined from the Earth. Solar Salt is just evaporated sea water straight from the Caribbean.

This is what I buy:
http://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/Water-Softening/Products/Solar-Salt.aspx
http://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/Images/water_softening/solar_salt_large.jpg

I got this brand once, but since the Home Depot is much closer to me than Lowes I don't buy it often (especially since a 40-50lb bag lasts a VERY long time)
http://www.mortonsalt.com/products/watersoftner/white-crystal-solar.html
http://www.mortonsalt.com/images/PRODUCTS/water_softening/water_soft_salt.gif

[emartin]

I also use Epsom salts to give my GH a bump... I buy about 10 pounds for $5 when it's on sale.


Interesting read on using salt in aquariums... I've used salt several times to treat ich and as a laxitive for fish when delousing them (metro/prazi). A further google search shows some pretty conflicting opinions on using salt to treat fish.
:coz:
Where did you find 10lbs of Epsom salt for $5? That's awesome!

I know at the worst store chain in America you can find Arm and Hammer Baking Soda (Sodium bicarbonate) 12lbs for like $5 I think...

[triscuit]

Walgreens sometimes has the buy one get one free sale on the 5 lb bags. And yeah, that other "w" store has cheap bags too.


99.6% salt does not mean 99.6% sodium chloride. Solar salt evaporated from seawater is typically a mix of ions- including sulfate, magnesium, bicarbonate, calcium and potassium. Table salt is refined sea salt, which leaves mostly sodium chloride. For providing a more natural balance of ions in your water and increasing your hardness, using solar salt is better than table salt.

[emartin]

I'm not too sure about that. I do agree that it is far from being as nice as refined table salt though since the salt crystals from solar salt are a bit cloudy and have some "whiteness" to them which I took as indicating presence of calcium which is normal for seawater in that part of the world.

Triscuit (I met you in person and still forgot your name... You're definitely a fish nut when you remember complete scientific names and their previous names over people LOL) what would you say, out of your opinion, would the presence of sulfates, magnesium, bicarbonates, calcium, and potassium would be?

Would you say significant, or minute but still there, or trace amounts...?

Either way it doesn't change my opinion of Solar Salt. Like you said any impurities in it from tropical seawater would be beneficial anyway when added to a freshwater tank...

[triscuit]

Triscuit (I met you in person and still forgot your name... You're definitely a fish nut when you remember complete scientific names and their previous names over people LOL)

:becky: I think you just described me too!



Seawater composition will vary with which sea we're talking about, but in general the ionic composition (mass, not molar equivalents) is about 50% Cl, 30% Na, 8% SO4, 7% Mg+Ca+K, and then all the trace minerals. When you evaporate the water, these ions form salts. The maximum amount of NaCl (table salt) that you can get out of that is about 80% of the total mass. 10% of that Cl has to match up with other cations when the Na is used up. If the salt is purified, they remove all but equivalent molar ratios of Na Cl- because that's the kind of salt that we're used to tasting.

This diversity of ions is a good thing when we're talking about using solar salt (evaporated from seawater) in our aquariums. Lake Tang has only ~17% Cl ( by mass) and 30% Na, with much higher percentages of the base cations (Mg, Ca, K).

Having other salts than NaCl in whatever you add to your tank shouldn't be considered impurities- it just more closely mimics the chemical composition we're trying to acheive. Whether we need to add any salts depends entirely on what fish we are keeping and what our source water composition is.



Now that I've got my full nerd on :nerd: some links:
http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/3/a/1/saltelementsenh_500.JPG
http://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm
http://www.lenntech.com/composition-seawater.htm


-meL

[fischfan13]

Melinda, then how would you describe using all of the other salts mentioned here to this:

Seachem Cichlid Lake Salt:

Analysis per 1 gram

Calcium 3.24 - 3.50 %
Magnesium 11.83 %
Potassium 10.08 %
Sodium 3.53 - 3.75 %
Aluminum .90 mg
Iodine .02 mg
Iron .20 mg

[triscuit]

Let's see if I can answer that before boring you to tears...

Well, there's a bit of an ion balance problem... they don't list the anions. For every positively charged ion there must be a negative charge, or else you'd get shocked when you got wet :sad-smiley-002:

Ingredients: magnesium chloride, calcium chloride, potassium sulfate, sodium chloride, aluminum sulfate, iron sulfate, potassium iodide,

According to the Seachem list, there must be molar equivalents of Mg+Ca+Na = Cl, while K+Al+ Fe= SO4+I. I assume the percentages are by weight, which may be a bit confusing. 1 atom of Ca weighs twice as much as an atom of Na. In effect, there's twice as much sodium as calcium in this product.


If we are trying to find a cheap DIY for this product, I'd start with Epsom Salt (MgSO4) and baking soda (NaHCO). I should mention that this is where I also stop adding salts, :whistle: but to more closely match the product, you could add a bit of cheap sea salt. Baking soda is technically a salt, in case you were wondering.

Fish food adds enough other minerals that I never worry about the calcium, aluminum, iron or potassium.

[Heyguy74]

Heres another link for the composition of seawater,

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

[Buckcich]

Melinda your answer was very helpfull. I'll save it for later digestion...............Thanks anyway!!!!