Science Project

[fischfan13]

Ok, so my son has a Science Project due for May 25th. He is in 8th grade and I think if he aces this project he gets a four year free ride to Dartmouth...I'm driving.

This is what he has come up with...
He is thinking about testing newly born fry (Yellow Labs) to see how they "Color up" if fed only one food for three months.
Three 5g tanks.
All equally heated.
Water changes all the same.

Tank #1) Junk food. We will find a staple food with the lowest protein levels and the worst ingredients possible.

Tank #2) Spirulina/algae/kelp foods only.

Tank #3) Shrimp/krill only.

Comments?
Opinions?

[racreis]

My sis Monica has the same project but she is doing here project on plants.
I think your son has come up with a awesome idea.
I think the key to getting a A on a project like this from my experience with science projects is to be as detailed as possible. Alot of charts, pics, measurments and write all your observations. Also to include your hypothesis and the ending result of the experiment.
Remember details details details!
Teachers eat that up...:)

[Zippo]

Might try some live foods too. ;)

[Pete]

Not a bad idea but is there likely to be much color variation between the various yellow labs tho'?

How about difference in water change regime.. Don't change the water at all on one tank, do 80% change weekly on one, 20% weekly on one. Same food, which labs are bigger at the end.

[AlishanAS]

Nice project. I was going to do one with my daughter a few years ago involving bettas. Never worked out.

Make up a spread sheet and take water parameters each day. Temp, ph.

I would measure nitrogen parameters also - daily at first then every third day or so.

Use the same type of heaters and thermometers if possible. If you are just testing only for different food types, then you do not want environmental fluctuations. If the tanks can be set up in a warm room you may not need a heater. The tanks then should all be close to the same temperature as long as they are at the same height.

Maybe a small box/sponge filter for each tank. Same type/packing for each tank.

Get new test kits for each parameter. Don't bother with salinity.

Record each water change date / volume.

Record dates and times for everything else.

You'll need to measure the mass of the food given, so stay away from live shrimp. You should feed each tank with the same amount so you'll need a decent scale. I'll see if any are laying around the lab. :becky:

Go with spirulina flakes, quality cichlid flake, nls or equivalent cichlid pellets. Maybe even try one of the enhanced pellets, such as those used for the horrible bloody parrot. Record ingredients of each food.

[fischfan13]

Not a bad idea but is there likely to be much color variation between the various yellow labs tho'?

How about difference in water change regime.. Don't change the water at all on one tank, do 80% change weekly on one, 20% weekly on one. Same food, which labs are bigger at the end.

There will be a color difference because I have already done something similar to this.
As for the water changes, I think the results there will be size differences...and not much else.
With the food there will (should, LOL) be color differences, maybe even size differences as well.

[markm]

Cool Idea!!!!! You may want to add a 4th "control tank", feeding the completely normal captive diet. I would love to hear the end results.

[BlondeFishGal]

Not a bad idea but is there likely to be much color variation between the various yellow labs tho'?

How about difference in water change regime.. Don't change the water at all on one tank, do 80% change weekly on one, 20% weekly on one. Same food, which labs are bigger at the end.

As I understand it, the color difference -- IF there is one and IF so, how much -- is the actual project, so even if there was to be no color difference, the project would still be a success. The process -- the research, documentation, controlled environment, restrictive diet, etc., is the actual parameter of the project. As a hobbyist, we care about the results of the color intensity, but as science project per se, the actual results are not as critical as how the experiment is carried out.

Having said that, Rosario LaCorte is a big, big believer in using shrimp and krill on any of his fish to color up, but yellow labs are not ones he has kept.

The other factor that may actual impact the color of the fish (if it indeed does) is that when feeding a restricted diet for 3 months, it MAY cause vitamin deficiencies that will have their own impact on coloration intensity. So then you have to ask, is it the food I am feeding that is causing the color change, or the withholding of the other food that is causing the color differences?

Jeez, I think that's too much info in an answer, even for a geek like me!
;)

[joe_jaskot]

Seems like a relatively simple experiment. Not sure the end result will be highly visible to observers. You may see a slight difference in coloration and size.

With your son's video talent, why not put together a power point show on fish reproduction and egg development. Film a mouthbrooder spawning. Strip the female. Tumble the eggs. Film daily egg development until hatching. Carry on an experiment from there. Seems a bit more challenging and interesting.

A couple of other ideas - effects of diet on brood size, effects of pH or temperature on sex ratio of fry

[jerseyhokie]

Not to side track you but Genetics can also be an awesome experiment. Dont know what kind of time frame you have

[fischkid13]

:typing: <---This is what will wind up happening to me in a few weeks. TYPING TYPING TYPING! I will have to start Researching this and learning about fish and diets and diets affecting things and yadda yadda yadda.

Currently, we don't have the amount of fry we need so obviously, this won't start for a while but that gives me time to get everything in order: feeding schedules, water criteria to check and all the other yaddas. :jail:
Yeah, my room where we will be keeping the fish is going to be like that. No freedom, just an endless sea with fish floating about.

:coz: Pretty much what I am doing during that period of waiting for fry. I think I may see if I can get a 4th control tank that is a balanced diet with all the required nutrients and see how that turns out.:smash:... Uh, I just wanted to see that smiley here. :becky: I am debating how I am going to do this whole thing, whether I will make a video or just take a few pictures and make some graphs etc etc etc. (What is it with this stuff tonight?) :focus:

Uh right, well if anyone has any suggestions on what to do for the control with the mixed diet, or what I should check in the water BESIDES pH, temperature and water in the tank at the end of the week (I may track the need for water changes or even try to see if their waste appears different. I know, science is disgusting.:fish2:) please tell me here and I will consider it.

[Bweb]

(just an endless sea with fish floating about.)

Sounds like heaven or my Family room 9 tanks LOL My wife is not laughing though:rant:

Very good Idea for a project my son has to project next year and we were going to document the whole mouth brooding process.

Good luck with the project.

[dogofwar]

How will you measure color differences. Size or another more easily measured characteristic might be another choice.

Matt

[BlondeFishGal]

:typing: <---This is what will wind up happening to me in a few weeks. TYPING TYPING TYPING! I know, science is disgusting.:fish2:) please tell me here and I will consider it.

Joseph:

i find it all too cool and I love the mix of science combined with the passion of fish keeping so anything I can do to help, please let me know

GOOD LUCK to you!
You Go Bro!

[fischkid13]

How will you measure color differences. Size or another more easily measured characteristic might be another choice.

Matt

I will probably be measuring size as well. But in order to watch the color, I will do one of two things or maybe even both. One is... ugh... comparing them to my dad's yellow labs that are fed a regular diet that is considered healthy.:frusty: Yeah I will try and do that, or as a substitute I could find a picture of wild yellow labs and check against them.

My other idea:1143: would be to just find a picture of yellow as in pure yellow pigment and see how they match against that. :croc: So checking this will be difficult but it will make ti look... I don't know more professional maybe?

Any other ideas:coz: on how to do this? Thanks!:ty:

[dogofwar]

Maybe getting some paint color samples from Home Depot or Lowes.

A different spin on this could be investigating the impact of color enhancers like Astaxanthan. You could do a control group with "staple flake" and one each with Astaxanthan enhanced food...and another with spirulina enhanced food (while keeping other aspects of care the same for the three groups).

You could record the initial color of the fish using the color samples...and then record the changes (if any) over time (with the appropriate color sample).

Just some thoughts! Good luck with the project :)

Matt


I will probably be measuring size as well. But in order to watch the color, I will do one of two things or maybe even both. One is... ugh... comparing them to my dad's yellow labs that are fed a regular diet that is considered healthy.:frusty: Yeah I will try and do that, or as a substitute I could find a picture of wild yellow labs and check against them.

My other idea:1143: would be to just find a picture of yellow as in pure yellow pigment and see how they match against that. :croc: So checking this will be difficult but it will make ti look... I don't know more professional maybe?

Any other ideas:coz: on how to do this? Thanks!:ty:

[fischkid13]

I have a new update on this project, one that throws me way off track.:rant: My first idea was the color comparison, but my science teacher gave me some news I didn't want to hear. Since we are learning about Chemistry and Physics, I have to make my project Chemistry related.:mad2: :hypnotized: Yeah, not so great.
I would like to know if anyone can come up with a chemistry related project for these fish. I will be keeping track of everything else such as color and size along side this, but pH, Nitrates and things related to those will be more important. So, if you have any chemistry related ideas for this, I would love to know! :ty::popcorn:

[Cichlidgeek]

I have a new update on this project, one that throws me way off track.:rant: My first idea was the color comparison, but my science teacher gave me some news I didn't want to hear. Since we are learning about Chemistry and Physics, I have to make my project Chemistry related.:mad2: :hypnotized: Yeah, not so great.
I would like to know if anyone can come up with a chemistry related project for these fish. I will be keeping track of everything else such as color and size along side this, but pH, Nitrates and things related to those will be more important. So, if you have any chemistry related ideas for this, I would love to know! :ty::popcorn:
Joseph,
I am sorry to hear that your original project fell through. Perhaps a chemistry-oriented project such as the following will be more in scope of what your teacher would like to see.

Set up three 5-gallon tanks, all identical to each other. Measure the pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate daily. Set up a water change schedule with one tank having a 10% water once weekly, tank two has a 10% water change every other week, and tank three having a 10% water change once a month. Every fish should be as close in size to the others, all of which are the same species and the same number of them in the tank. Chart the results using a simple line graph to show what happens to the water's chemistry as the time between water changes increases with other variables remaining constant.

That would be a highly chemistry-oriented test that would be far more advanced than what your other classmates would probably be doing.

Just a thought to get you started, surly a lot to think about and I am sure others here will have a lot more to say/suggest.
Good luck, let me know if I can help.
--Brian

[Scat]

My daughter is into science and has entered the "fair" every year since 7th grade. Her first outing garnered her a 2nd place at her school which allowed her to go to the state "fair" where she won 1st in her division. Her project? Something pretty stupid that most of us fish geeks have likely tried at one time or another.

She made soda bottle CO2 reactors and then tested different types of sugar to see which one produced the most CO2. For such a simple experiment it actually drew quite a bit of attention at the state level. It might be a great experiment for your son. Lots of simple chemistry that to the untrained hobbyist is pretty cool and likely never before seen at the school fair.

We found that the biggest and most important factor is to remove all variability except for the one variable you are testing for. Things you may not think of like the temperature of the water you start the culture in, the depth of the tubing in a glass of water where the bubble come out, Ambient room temperature, etc. All of these have to be identical from experiment to experiment so that there are no outside influences on the results of the test. That and keep meticulous notes.

With that said I was shocked at the level of science being exhibited at the state level. The kids that were winning 4 year scholorships were writing sophisticated software programs and performing very in depth experiments on things such as human neurology. One kid won an award for some new design on a rail gun type weapon which the Army actually paid him quite handsomely for the design. I was stunned at what some of these kids were presenting. With the help of well educated parent no doubt...

By the way, honey produced the most CO2. It didn't "burn the hottest" but lasted longer at a sustained level which is what you want. Sadly, it will never win her a scholoraship. :sad-smiley-002:

[fischkid13]

Latest update on my epic science project!:woot: Yesterday we (as in me:shocked: and my dad :neener:) stripped the females (two of them) and got 34 fry between them. They are currently in a breeder net in a small ten gallon tank so my Science Project has officially started! :beerchug: :vader: <----- he is awesome. Anyway, we are going to be putting them into their tanks in about, oh lets say a week shall we? :whoo: So looks like I will update what is going on with my project here so that you can all follow along with my epic adventure... not really.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/Fischfan13/017.jpg
Here is my Science Project in its first stage. See ya with the next update. :ty:

~fischkid13

[Flareside]

I think Brian is onto something, if you alter the water parameters- throw off the ph at both ends of the spectrum, but food can stay consistent throughout the tanks. You should be able to prove that ideal water parameters will yield larger fish versus tanks with low ph etc...?