BREEDING QUESTIONS

[Flareside]

I have a couple of young fish that are holding for their first time right now. Hongi, White Labid, couple species of Aulonocara...I dont want to strip.
I was, anyone her take their holding malawi mothers and put them into their own tank and let them spit?

I have been keeping and breeding africans for over 20 years, I had stripped a lot of my fish in the past. I'd like to see how these new females do on their own if I put the females in 20L's by themselves.

Will they care for their fry or just eat them? Your thoughts or experiences?

[ChrisG12887]

ive done this before and its actually pretty kool, they will continue to hold the brood until they are wigglers, once they feel its safe they will spit them on thier own and if she feels like they are in danger she will put em back in her mouth. she will not eat them. I have even put females in with fry who werent even holding and they never mess with the fry...

[nick a]

I've had a range of responses from Mbuna females. Some show a bit of maternal care for a relatively short time (less than 1 week) and some view their fry as food in as little as 1 day. I always have a few small rocks for the fry to escape into when i can't use one of the open-bottomed breeder boxes.

I've had similar (tho generally more positive for longer) results with the peacocks.

[Flareside]

I like having the option to do this with Tangs though I havent had much luck in the past with Malawians. Sometimes the females have even swallowed after I put them in a tank by themselves. Just curious how others pull this off

[joe_jaskot]

The few times that I have isolated a holding female in a separate tank, I have had good success. The female is kept by herself in a bare tank with plants and usually lots of whole oyster shells. The shells provide plenty of hiding places for the fry once the female spits them out. After a few days of allowing the female to get some of her strength back, I put her back in the tank she was in.

[AMBUSHPREDATOR]

I am isolating a female right now , she's released the fry naturally in the past . Same setup as Jaskot without the shells because it makes it harder to move the fry later. In this situation the female shouldn't eat the fry, I think when females lose them in this situation they probably werent viable to begin with. A single female releasing fry in a solitary tank with alittle food and plants for the fry to hide in and nibble at should work. Females eating their newborn fry under these condition's is unnatural, and also helps you see the females you'd rather breed down the line. I wouldn't be surprized if those fry are also better parents themselves. Thank you---- Andy Rooney

[mack74]

I have done it this way for years and use 5 10g tanks for this. I have no issues at all. I let them hold till they spit and take them out about 3 days after spiting so they can eat in peace. I usually will let them hold for as long as I can before putting tham in the 10's as they will sometimes spit the eggs if they just started holding them

[EMTBMIKE]

Every females is different. Some will care for their fry. Some will eat their fry. The only true way to find out is to give it a try. If all of the females hold full term on their first spawn. Then you are pretty lucky.
MIKE

[maddog10]

That is how I bred all my Malawi fish. I would net the female out a couple of days after I noticed her holding. I used 2.5 gallon tanks with a sponge filter. I also left her in the tank with the fry after she spit for a day or two (unless I saw her try to eat the fry). Then back into the breeding tank she went.

I think you will have to develop a routine that works for you. What works for one fish might not work for another. It can be done without issue, you just need to work out the timing of when to pull and return the female.

This is not a good practice with real aggressive fish, as they tend to attack newcomers. A fish that is being reintroduced after a week or two is considered a newcomer.

[Flareside]

thanks for the input guys. One quick question- does tank size for holding females matter. Another words am I adding further negative variables if they are moving from a 90 or a 125 gallon to only a 20L or a 10, could the size from moving to a large tank to a small tank make them feel cramped/stressed lessening the chances that they would raise their young?

[EMTBMIKE]

It has to be with in reason. I would not put a 6 inch fish in a 10 gallon tank. The majority of mbuna will be fine in a 10 gallon tank.

[Julie]

This is not a good practice with real aggressive fish, as they tend to attack newcomers. A fish that is being reintroduced after a week or two is considered a newcomer.

Depending on the species... try putting the females back in just before turning lights out. I've done this with tropheus... notorious for not allowing *new* members... or short absenttees back into the tank. worked just fine!!

[maddog10]

thanks for the input guys. One quick question- does tank size for holding females matter. Another words am I adding further negative variables if they are moving from a 90 or a 125 gallon to only a 20L or a 10, could the size from moving to a large tank to a small tank make them feel cramped/stressed lessening the chances that they would raise their young?

I used 2.5 gallon tanks for fish up to about 4" without any ill effects. Does not mean it will work for all fish. The opposite side of the coin is, maybe they feel safer in a smaller tank by themselves, not being harassed by 10 other tank mates. That is why holding females will act like they are eating, they do not want to appear weak and become a target.

After the first couple of days the fish does not raise the fry, I do.

This is going to one of those times when you take in all the advice and then develop your own plan. Plans can be changed once you determine what works and what doesn't. There is no 'right way' only what works.

[Flareside]

That is why holding females will act like they are eating, they do not want to appear weak and become a target.

Excellent point! I will give it a try. I wish I had netted and moved them when I first noticed them holding.

[AMBUSHPREDATOR]

Another positive on separating holding fem's. They release at the correct time instead of holding longer than normal as they try to find a safe place to release. And since they release at the right time and don't waste a huge amount of energy hiding, running away and fighting of other fish they are barely emaciated when they release. Today my fem peacock released her fry , about 35 or so and wasn't skinny at all. I put her back in the regular tank immediately and she looks great and is eating already. If you looked at her you would never know she just spit fry. A real keeper !

[Flareside]

Damn Ambush- no shrunken belly at all huh? I have got to get this process that you guys are doing down. And quickly

currently my pearlmutts, hongi, white labids, dolphin, and hara's are looking so skinny from holding, once they are stripped, they are holding again a few days later. They dont have time to recover. I may have to remove males to give them time to get healthy again.

(Note- none of the lab. species are breeding in the same tanks together- no danger of hybridizing)

[AMBUSHPREDATOR]

I think that they are superskinny and still breeding in an attemt to keep the males pressure off. I agree it might be a good time to let the girls bulk up for a month or two without the males harrasing them. When they are superskinny its just that they never get to get healthy over and over and each time I'd guess it get's worse and worse. Remember after superskinny it's weak then dead anyway , what do you have to lose.

[Flareside]

I agree...they are looking a bit Lindasy Lohan-ish right now....

[mack74]

I agree they will get skinny the more and more they breed, thats why i like to keep the females in groups of at least 3 but I preffer 5. I find they live long heathier lives if there are more of them. Its preads the males agression around. As far as keeping them seperate I keep adult mbuna and you guys know mine are lerge in half a 10. I use dividers and give them a tube to hide in and they are very happy.