New Multi Tank for a first time aquarist

[CruelSun]

I posted this on Shelldwellers.com, but had trouble posting pictures, and It was reccomended that I come here to post a buildout pictoral.

This is my first post here, besides the welcome forum.
I am new to this hobby (obsession??). A friend of mine, SpookyFish (of Cichlidkeepers, and NYCichlids among others) has been keeping/breeding Cichlids for many years, and is now building a 30,000 Gal breeding facility (http://cichlidkeepers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=260&st=0&sk=t&sd=a) with the help of myself and others. The project has been very rewarding, and I have learned a fair amount about the hobby. I have also apparently caught the 'shellie bug'...

I will be setting up a 30G (36x12x16) on my computer desk in my basement as a Multi tank. The concept for the tank comes from Spookyfish who is currently too busy building his fishroom to mess with a show tank. So in essence I am building someone else's 'dream tank'. That said, It seems like a fun project, and I have thrown in enough twists of my own to keep it interesting from a 'handyman engineering' standpoint...

Concept:
A deep shell bed to mimic the multi's natural habitat. No substrate to create busywork for the fish, just lots lf places for breeding, and for fry/juvies to hide. Not a 'show-tank' for people, but a multi-layered 'Multi Palace'. Preferably with all utilities hidden from view, and no distracting bubbles, so that all you can see are shells and fish (if you are stealthy ;)).

Situation:
I need to create as low maintenance a system as I can. I can spare time to build it, but the daily/weekly maintenance must be very low.
The location is against a wall, beneath a drafty and poorly insulated basement window.
My tap water is chlorinated (not Chloramine).
My Tap water ph is ~7.2
I don't know the specifics, but the tap water is definitely not considered 'hard'.


Plan:
Purchase mass quantities of 1 to 1 1/2" Shark eye and/or Whale eye shells from Shell Horizons (cheap, Cheap, CHEAP, once you get over the $50 minimum order) to fill the tank to at least 6"
Build a 'utility cage' out of egg crate material that can be buried under layers of shells in the center-bottom of the tank to contain the heating and filtration system.
Normally surrounded by at least 2 layers of shells from all sides, can be un-burried, and the top removed for access to contents for maintnance
6 - 4"long X 2 3/4"diameter HydroSpongeII sponges mounted horizontally on screened tubing and connected to a submersed, and buried 170gph(adjustable flow) Eheim powerhead
two feet of 2 3/4" diameter sponge filter will be massive overkill at first, but should provide a reliable, long term, low maintenance filter for even a moderate bioload as the strata of shells fill with fry & juvies
Output of powerhead is to be aimed upward to roil the water and facilitate oxygenation
The filter will create a slight top-to bottom flow across the expanse of the tank, similar to an undergravel filter, but without the typical dead spots. This flow should also bring fry size food into the sub strata of shells.
Two 75W Marineland 'Stealth' heaters
combined power should provide plenty of heat in winter for my breezy location
safer than a single oversized heater in case of a 'runaway thermostat'
Their proximity to the filter (not too close) will distribute the heat from the now truly stealthy heaters


Drill/bulkhead tank so it can overflow-to-waste.
Install an automated water change system.
a solenoid valve with timer to provide 3gal(10%) tap water daily to a reservoir
a 15g Rubbermaid tote food-grade plastic reservoir with an airstone to circulate water and off-gas chlorine
crushed coral? in reservoir to increase hardness and increase PH?
reservoir then overflows to gravity feed 3g/day (mostly) aged water into main tank..
And last but not least, 27 8x10 color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one... Hmm, and maybe a 'Multi' Cam. I wonder if Arlo G. would approve??.

Here is a workup of the proposed tank layout:http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd37b3127ccec6f5d8fc945b00000040O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/ I can't seem to get this picture to display large enough so all the labels can be read...

Anyone see something I'm missing? Comments? Suggestions? Please!!

[joe_jaskot]

Throw 2 of them in a bare bottom 10 gallon tank with a heater, corner filter, shells and plants. In a year or two you'll have a hundred of em in there. Use the bigger tank for some other tanganyikans.

[YoungAquaticPhotos]

I was just enjoying my multi tank to night. They had stopped breeding since I moved them from a 15 to a 50 breeder. Then about a few months ago I added a clump of java Moss. It grew all over the tank. I started thinning it out a few weeks ago and saw tons of fry from 1/2" to just swimming. Tonight as I was feeding them I started counting them and was up to 75 and stopped. There has to be over a 100 plus 20 or so adults!
I started with 8 - 1" multi's and in a few months I had tons!

Good luck with setting them up!

Ed

[CruelSun]

Sounds like they are prolific little buggers, I can't wait to get the tank up and running...

[Spooky_Fish]

You don't even have any water in the fish tank yet and you flooded your floor already...Putz! I would repeat my statement that you are way overcomplicating this thing, but I'm not an "I TOLD YOU SO" kind of guy.

[fischfan13]

You don't even have any water in the fish tank yet and you flooded your floor already...Putz! I would repeat my statement that you are way overcomplicating this thing, but I'm not an "I TOLD YOU SO" kind of guy.

Wow, tough love!
:taser:

[CruelSun]

Well, over complication is what I do... Where is the challenge in filling a tank with water? There is some challenge in 'handyman engineering' a water change system that raises pH and hardness of incoming water while reducing Chlorine. It is that aspect of this hobby that draws me to it. :grhair:

The plumbing is almost done, the filter is assembled, more work to do on the filter enclosure... Pictures soon!

[CruelSun]

Filter:

I assembled a large sponge filter from screened tubing, 1" PVC, seven 2 3/4" diameter by 4" long Hydrosponge II's and an Eheim Aquaball powerhead.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fce6f17eba00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Here is the finished product;
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fc2d623ed400000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[CruelSun]

Filter/Heater enclosure:
From Eggcrate I created a rectangular box, roughly 30"L X 6"W X 3 1/2"H. The sides and bottom are fastened together, and the top (not shown here) is removable.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fc1d6dbff300000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fcb63f7e5c00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[CruelSun]

Inside I installed the sponge filter and Two 75W heaters.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fcab7abfbf00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd7200df7d00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

With the top installed http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fcddf5bf0b00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[CruelSun]

Leak testing the new tank with the filter enclosure inside:

with the pump running (clear PVC in foreground was to hold the filter down cause it wanted to float):
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd06db5eac00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

There is at least 3" of space on all sides of the enclosure, so when the tank is filled with shells this should be totally hidden from view.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd31659fa100000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[joe_jaskot]

If you cover the filter with shell, how do you go about rinsing off the filter? The sponge should be squeezed out occasionally.

[CruelSun]

I plan on gluing a couple layers of shells to the utility cage lid. That way I should be able to gain access to the filter without moving too many shells around. Not a perfect plan, but its all I've come up with. I'm hoping that between the size of the filter, the relatively small bio load and 10% water change daily, I should not have to rinse the sponges very often.

[CruelSun]

Automated water treatment and water change system:

This is a 16Gal Rubbermaid tote. I've drilled and grommeted holes to attach various hoses as annotated.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fc659c3e0e00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Three gal of water is added to this bucket every day by a solenoid valve on a timer. The water then circulates through a layer of crushed coral to raise the pH and hardness, while off-gassing chlorine. With 12 gal in here, when 3 gal of new tap water is added each day, 3 gal of water (aged and treated an average of four days) will drain out of the main overflow and into the fish tank.

Inside the bucket, I created a percolator that continuously pumps water to the surface, where it then percolates down through a layer of crushed coral.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fce88a7ec600000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[CruelSun]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd42915ec400000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd53671ea200000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd4fff1e3400000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fc80427e3a00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[CruelSun]

I built a platform out of PVC pipe & eggcrate, and then used two layers of 'plastic canvas' screening from a craft store to make a basket that hugged the sides of the bucket to hold the crushed coral about 4 inches off the bottom. The center tube is a 'lift tube' made from 1 1/2" PVC and an air line:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd74265e6800000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fc8ad2ff9f00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I'll post more pix once I've got the tank drilled and plumbed in, and while I arrange the shells.

Fish are coming this weekend!

[AMBUSHPREDATOR]

I love a good science project , are you glueing the mesh to the sides. I'm sure the coral will fall down through assorted spaces over time if you dont.

[CruelSun]

Too much coral was falling through the screening before I added the second layer. I did not glue it to the sides of the bucket because the coral is (slightly) below the level of the sides of the screening. The only problem I had was where the center tube went through the screening there were some small holes leaking coral, so I plugged those holes with a bit of silicone.

[Spooky_Fish]

I noticed the way you lined up all the grooves on the sponge filters. You must have been a nightmare to toilet train.

Very nice job on the cage, that is exactly what I was imagining.
Kudos on the creative use of zip ties, cable dude.

I had actually planned on placing the cage against the back glass, not centered in the tank. I believe the cage will be more stable and easier to manage placed up against the glass (a couple dabs of silicone will ensure that). Centering will provide better circulation throughout the shell bed, but I reckon the flow with it against the glass would be more than sufficient. This is probably a minor point, and your idea of centering it may be technically better. It's certainly another complication, and I know you can't resist those.

lol, you graduated the Rubbermaid.

PS: Did you call me at 3:58 this morning, waking me up, and ask me why I'm up and then hang up on me???? Or was that just a nightmare?

[Artie]

I noticed the way you lined up all the grooves on the sponge filters. You must have been a nightmare to toilet train.


LMAO Very Funny Spooky. Cruelsun please take this in a very complimentary and loving way. YOU'RE NUTS !!!!!!!!!! :erm: I'm actually enjoying your inovativeness.(sorry about the spelling):):)

[CruelSun]

Spooky- That must have been a nightmare... Please check your phone records. Besides, you hung up on me :)

Artie- Thank You, and Thank You :colrface:

[CruelSun]

1500 Shark Eye shells from Shell Horizons. This should solve the affordable housing shortage...
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fc811fbfcf00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

My daughter Leah rinsed 800 shells and sorted them by size, then put the smallest shells into the tank around the filter cage. We'll layer in the larger shells later.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd06b3127ccec6e2c44af4b300000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The next trick will be gluing a couple layers of shells to the top of the filter cage so I'll be able to lift the lid and shells out in one piece when I need to access the filter or heaters.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd06b3127ccec6e349e0948b00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[joe_jaskot]

I'm not crazy about your placement of layers of shells. How will you clean up all the mulm that will accumulate on the bottom of the tank? Also when lifting the lid with the shells glued to them, make sure the lid stays in the water because there will be fish hiding in the shells.

[Artie]

How will you clean up all the mulm

Did someone say MULM??????????? Wait till afreakin & trashman see this post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[misterted]

umm....whats mulm?

[joe_jaskot]

Webster's Dictionary - mulm (noun) - the junk found in Artie's shorts. LOL!

Mulm is broken down fish waste.

[YoungAquaticPhotos]

Great! Another MULM thread!

[CruelSun]

This is Great!! My thread has been hijacked by Mulm-o-Philes ;)

Well, as I have admitted before, this plan has a few holes in it... One of those holes is filled with mulm.:sigh:

This whole project is an experiment to see what happens in a small colony of Multi's (I'm starting with an alpha male, two breeding females, and four or five juveniles) and their successive generations, when they have a deep shell bed and lots of room to populate.

I am hoping that the action of the filter will create enough flow to minimize the aesthetic aspect of the mulm... I'm also hoping that because there is so much space, it won't be a problem to have the deepest layer of shells a bit mulm-ified:blah:

As far as an eventual mulm-ectomy, I don't really have a plan for that, beyond total dis-assembly of the tank. I will need to do that anyway, so I can harvest the fry once the population hits it's tipping point. I thought about placing a sheet of eggcrate an inch off the bottom and putting the shells on top (sort of like an under gravel filter) so that when I did have to go into the filter cage, I could also get a siphon under the shell bed to do at least a partial mulmectomy, but it would have been a tedious job with questionable effect.

There should be just enough room to lift the lid of the filter cage with shells attached, set it aside, and gain access to the filter and heaters. The lid+ shells is plenty heavy dry, and will not hold together out of the tank with the extra weight of the water in the shells.

btw; the fish are here and should be in the tank by tomorrow.

[CruelSun]

Here is the filter cage lid with 2-3 layers of shells attached
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd08b3127ccec6ee0ac4624000000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The lid in place
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd08b3127ccec6ef6ed4422e00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I guess about 200 more shells should do it...
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd08b3127ccec6eea53b227000000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[CruelSun]

I was wrong with the shell count in a previous post, There were 900 not 800 shells at that time. I finished off with 200 more for a total of 1100 shells.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd08b3127ccec6ef683342ca00000050O08WcNHDRkD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The water is a tiny bit cloudy from adding the shells, so I will wait til tomorrow evening to add the fish.

[joe_jaskot]

Looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Uneaten food will be trapped in areas where no fish will be able to get to. May want to throw a few kuhli loach in there.

[Artie]

Cruelsun, I tend to agree with Joe Jascot. I think there will be way to much uneaten food getting trapped in the shells & contaminating the water. Also once you try to catch some fry be ready to rid your tank of 500 shells !!!!!!:coz: All this is stated with LOVE !!!!!!!! See you at the auction??????????? :woot:

[YoungAquaticPhotos]

As much as Artie and I hate to agree with Joe, I think he is right. Way overdoing it! I have about 75 shells and with all the java moss I don't nned anymore. I can't imagine having 1100 shells!

[CruelSun]

Uneaten food will be trapped in areas where no fish will be able to get to. May want to throw a few kuhli loach in there.

I have been amazed at how the adults seem to swim down into the shell bed and pop up somewhere else. I have even seen an adult female(?) go all the way down alongside the front glass to the bottom glass and then disappear toward the rear of the tank, only to reappear elsewhere.

I am new to this but I read an outline on the Kuhli Loach and the water parameters stated seem incompatible with the multi's.

The point of this experiment was to way over do the depth of the shell bed.

I have a feeling that once the population reaches it's tipping point, (if the fish and I survive) the dis assembly will be permanent in favor of a new project. Maybe a community tank of some sort...

Separating the fish from all these shells will be more of a project than the anything else.

So far the fish seem to be doing well, One male is lording over the 2 shells that came here with the fish, If there are females inside they have not shown themselves). Two other Males(?) have staked out territories in other places. One of them seems to have two females cavorting with him. I am sure that there were 8, possibly 9 fish in the bucket (with just the two shells) in the days before I put them in the tank. But I have seen only four to five fish in the new tank at any given time since...

[CruelSun]

Got Fry??!!

The fish have slowly settled into their new space. They are still quite shy when there is any movement in the room, except for my cat, whom they don't seem to mind at all??...

With so many places to hide, many of them spend much of their time 'under the radar'. There were at least eight, possibly nine, fish when I put them in, But I have only seen seven at any one time in recent weeks. I can see that there are two separate groups, The wild caught male has two females in a large territory through the center of the tank, and the other adult male has three or four(five?) females in a territory that is in the left hand quarter of the tank furthest from where I sit. That far group is the most active, and were the first clutch of fry is located. The fry are Tiny! Probably a bit larger than the ! on my keyboard. but are swimming 1"-2" free of their shell already.

[joe_jaskot]

Soon your tank will be filled with them. They are the "guppies" of Lake Tanganyika.